Talk:Sega Genesis

David Rosen did not coin the name "Genesis" (and in any case, a single self-assertion makes a poor reference.)

First: I have read the Title FAQ, I understand the rules and I am in no way suggesting the name be changed again. For what it's worth, I consider myself a neutral observer, having lived in both territories, having never owned a Sega console and with my interest limited to that of a historian. I feel obligated to state that the case given in the FAQ for the US/CA name is symptomatic of a much wider problem with Wikipedia - it is hopelessly US-centric, and the FAQ outlines a near-textbook case of justification of this US-centrality ex post facto with false assertions and spurious arguments. The use of a poll to decide the matter is decidedly the most onerous, and sorriest, chapter of this story, considering the US-centric nature of Wikipedia attracts US users and editors, dissuades those from the rest of the world, and creates a foregone result based not on opinion or expertise, but on self-perpetuating imbalance with a tinge of inviting a sort of national chauvinism. It is not my intent to be disruptive, but as an American living abroad, and having worked as a history teacher in the UK and Australia, I have encountered real-world consequences of this bias. Four out of the five schools at which I worked, across both countries, banned use of Wikipedia chiefly due to the often-absurd levels of US-centrism of both its content and editors. Two of those even blocked access to it from their networks due to frequent usage (and revert after revert to) US spelling on pages whose subjects were entirely based in Commonwealth countries. Proper prosecution of this US-centric folly belongs elsewhere, but I would note that the one argument for the US/CA name over the worldwide name that makes some sense - that US Sega fans recognise the worldwide name less frequently than Japanese, British, Australian, Brazilian (and so on) Sega fans recognise the US/CA name - has nothing to do with the appropriateness of either, but rather is deeply rooted in US people having far less awareness of what goes on in other countries than those countries' people have of what goes on outside their own borders. It is hardly an argument to pander to this phenomenon.

To get to the main point, the wiki takes David Rosen's assertion that he coined the name "Genesis" as fact, relying on a single claim by himself from a 1992 book. The alternative story about Mega Drive Systems - a California-based manufacturer of PC storage devices, particularly SCSI drives - seems convincing, but may be suspect - a YouTuber (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syeSrV9poJo ) searching out the copyright of this company could only trace it to 1991, though in my limited but not nonexistent understanding of US copyright law, this does not falsify the theory that it could have triggered the initial name change. However, the same source also details how the name "Genesis" - a replacement for the original idea for the US launch, "Tomahawk" - was invented not by David Rosen, but by an engineer at Atari during the brief period when Sega had approached Atari with an offer to release the Mega Drive in the US (and elsewhere) as an Atari console. Supposedly, the engineer won a steak dinner for all of his marketing nous. David Rosen's assertion that he invented the name, then, seems more likely than not to be little more than PR - remember the source for attributing the name to Rosen was a book published during the thick of the 16-bit console wars. I do not have the time to go digging to the depths required to find the attributable truth; apparently I spend that time instead railing against my country's unworldliness and ignorance. But I feel confident in suggesting that Rosen's claim should be removed from the article as unproven and contested at best. Khardankov (talk) 14:20, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

So.... ignoring the fairly disruptive and unnecessary first paragraph of this... Do you have any reliable sources (WP:RS) to backup a change to the article content? At best we might make it clearer that Rosen's claims are, in fact, just Rosen's claims. -- ferret (talk) 14:42, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Not really sure what the first paragraph has to do with any of this, but do you have any further sources on the matter? It appears you're asking us to delete something a reliable source said because of a claim from a YouTuber? That's not the sort of sourcing Wikipedia uses in general, let alone in a Featured Article. Sergecross73 msg me 14:50, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

The article doesn't say Rosen coined the name "Genesis". Instead it says In North America, the name was changed to "Genesis".

The only claim the article makes about Rosen on the name is this: Rosen said he insisted on the name as he disliked "Mega Drive" and wanted to represent "a new beginning" for Sega. It isn't written in Wikipedia's voice — it explicitly says that this is what Rosen said. Popcornfud (talk) 14:51, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Khardankov - so much wrong with everything you’ve said, and I say that as an American who actually supports the Mega Drive naming system but accepts what is because the content matters more than the name. In any regard, I don’t mean to be rude, but let me see if I can help fill in some gaps for you:

• A “poll” is not the true reason this article is at Sega Genesis and not Mega Drive. It’s Wikipedia policy, WP:TITLECHANGES. Because there is actually no consensus on which is correct, and likely never will be, per the policy we default to the title the article was at when it was no longer a stub, and that’s Sega Genesis. That is pretty clearly spelled out in the FAQ.
• The entire second paragraph smells of original research, and that’s not what we’re here to do. We report what other reliable sources say, not what someone on YouTube with a lot of free time has to say. Personally I can tell you I’ve had to weed out tons of unsupported Sega narratives throughout my Wikipedia career, even ones that were generally accepted as fact, because they could not be reliably sourced and later sources showed it was incorrect all along (for example, the mythology that Sonic Team was originally Sega-AM8 before the release of Sonic the Hegehog, when it wasn’t even actually a studio itself until 1994 and even then it was Sega CS3). I might suggest WP:VNT as good recommended reading.

In other words, show me the sources first, ones that are reliable. Red Phoenix ^talk 19:57, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Lack of sources on discontinuation date

Can anyone share a source for the Genesis being discontinued in Brazil in 2023, because i couldn't find any and i doubt that claim. Rvtar34 (talk) 05:03, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

You can go to the Tectoy website and see that they no longer sell it, Just an Atari Flashback, a Master System variant with games, and an Arcade based console.

https://www.tectoy.com.br/games/consoles

There's a thread on reddit mentioning it here https://www.reddit.com/r/SEGAGENESIS/comments/1434d2a/sega_genesis_is_officially_discontinued_in_brazil/ Lmcgregoruk (talk) 22:01, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

None of that is useable for Wikipedia unfortunately. Popcornfud (talk) 22:53, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Not to mention, if I’m not mistaken, that it’s happened before and been brought back — in the case of Genesis, at least. Master System has had better longevity with Tectoy than Genesis has. Red Phoenix ^talk 17:49, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Seriously, the altered name vs its original?

You'd think wiki wouldn't lean towards mob mentality, but this has to be the Nth time this article has reverted to "Genesis" rather than "Mega Drive", despite the fact that ONLY North America uses the name versus : Japan, Indonesia, Australia, New Zealand, Scotland, Ireland, England...(and more)!

Just because there are more people to vote down something doesn't make it the right way to do it.

(BTW, adding the fact about how many countries have the original name is new information, so not "disruptive". [Hell, I have an Indonesian MD2 to back it up.])

- Tallaussiebloke (talk) 00:28, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Please check the FAQ. Sergecross73 msg me 00:43, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

68K and Z80?

There's no way they ever made any money on the console itself. 57.135.233.22 (talk) 06:53, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

...what...? Sergecross73 msg me 12:32, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I’m guessing the IP user is implying the cost of a Motorola 68000 and Zilog Z80, the two processors in the console, would have made it cost-prohibitive and unprofitable for Sega to start, not just when Kalinske suggested cutting the price of the Genesis to sell it on the razor-and-blades model. The IP user has some merit in suggesting this given the same processors were the base of the active System 16 to make converting arcade games as close as it gets by using the same hardware… but sources, please! The System 16 was an advanced board, but it was never Sega’s most technologically superior board of the time; the Y Board and System 32 (both members of the “Super Scaler” family of boards) were technically superior. Y Board had releases in 1988, the same year Mega Drive debuted in Japan, so System 16 wasn’t the top-notch technology of the time. Check out Power Drift and tell me if it looks anything remotely like Altered Beast.

Long story short: sources, or it didn’t happen. Red Phoenix ^talk 15:45, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Sega Master System Successor

I think it's interesting that there is no mention that the Mega Drive is actually the successor to the Master System directly. When the Mega Drive was created, the SMS was used as the starting point and the additional Mega Drive hardware was added to give it the backward compatability. This was stated in an old interview with one of the engineers that worked on the Mega Drive. Sorry I cannot find the video. Maybe someone else has it. 2405:6E00:2229:7BB:B1A6:7ADF:E5BB:902F (talk) 03:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

The WP:INFOBOX literally says Predecessor - Master System. It doesn't get much more direct than that... Sergecross73 msg me 03:40, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

It's also a little more present in the article and in published sources that we have that the System 16 arcade system board was really the starting point, and that is sourced in the article. For Sega, being a company that was so arcade-focused at the time, the idea of bringing one of their lower arcade boards to a home console was really what they wanted, and so much of Sega'a marketing at the time emphasized bringing the arcade experience home. It was also a jump-off for Sega where the SG-1000, SG-1000 II, and Master System all used the same Z80 for a processor with only minor tweaks to the hardware and a custom graphics chip for the Master System/Mark III. Of course, whether or not the System 16 was in turn based on SMS as a starting point is a good question; it too shared a Zilog Z80, although like with the Genesis, the Motorola 68000 is the real deal behind the system's processing power. Red Phoenix ^talk 04:40, 23 December 2024 (UTC)