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Former featured article candidateHistory of Christianity is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Good articleHistory of Christianity has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Did You Know Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 9, 2024Good article nomineeListed
March 1, 2024Peer reviewReviewed
March 31, 2024Good article reassessmentKept
June 11, 2024Peer reviewReviewed
October 1, 2024Featured article candidateNot promoted
December 20, 2024Featured article candidateNot promoted
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on February 22, 2024.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the growth of Christianity in 20th-century Africa has been termed the "fourth great age of Christian expansion"?
Current status: Former featured article candidate, current good article

Discovery of oldest evidence for Christian life north of the alps (230 - 270 AD)

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You are all invited to help working on Frankfurt silver inscription (about the newly discovered oldest evidence of Christianity north of the alps), and to also cover it in this article. Renerpho (talk) 16:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of things the article doesn't adequately describe

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To be expanded: ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:34, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • What an "apostle" was.
  • What the result of the Council of Jerusalem was (in the last paragraph of "Early Christianity")
  • What the trinity is (there should be a line in the second paragraph of "Early Christianity")
  • What Christian monasticism was.
  • Why did the previous version on the Vulgate focus on whether it was similar to Roman jurisprudence, and not on its massive legacy?

I checked one source, Humfress 2015, for the "art and literature (350-500)" section. There was much too high a proportion of close paraphrasing. You also need to pay attention to this. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:10, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take care of it. Thank you for giving me something to do! Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That particular instance has been taken care of, but others may be out there. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am bad about forgetting quotation marks. I'll put them at the beginning and forget the end, forget them entirely - I am trying to be more careful. I will be. I will do the rest of this list today, I promise. Do you want the answers here or do you want me to insert them? Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:26, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Apostle: Persons in the position of apostle are representatives sent out from the Christian community as bearers of a message.[1]
  • Burton, Ernest DeWitt (1912). "The Office of Apostle in the Early Church". The American Journal of Theology. 16 (4): 561–588.
    • Council of Jerusalem
    • The Jewish Christians in Jerusalem decided to allow Gentile Christians their form of Christianity and allow Jews to keep theirs. The only restrictions given were to "abstain from the pollutions of idols and from fornication and from what is strangled, and from blood".[2]
    • Trinity: God in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I do not like the idea of adding this. There are no discussions of theology in this article - nor philosophy - both of which Christianity is heavy with. Both of these change over time, and impacted all kinds of things, like the Reformation, so they would have to be discussed repeatedly. They are probably important enough to be included in a history of the church - but hopefully not a history of Christianity - because its not just rabbit hole, it's a rabbit warren. If we start explaining it we will have to keep on till the cows come home - and I don't have any cows - so they will never come home - if you get my meaning.
    You do not think that excluding a topic which Christianity "is heavy with" and "impacts all kinds of things" means the article is incomplete? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ~~ AirshipJungleman29 I am drawing a fine line, to be sure, but academics in this field draw fine lines of meaning using excriciatingly minute detail. I am drawing a semantic line between a history of the church which would include its theology and practices and a history of Christianity in the broader sense of events and impact on society, politics and economics. When you excluded practices from Early Christianity, I felt validated in that choice. If you want it in, the article will end up at 20,000 words, I'll betcha, even if you edit it all with your magic touch. Theology is obscure to most people and requires lots of explaining and most people just don't care. So. The article is incomplete but in a complete way - does that make a weird kind of sense? Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:53, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I will do what you decide. Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Monasticism
    • The structured pursuit of the ascetic life. The first sentence of our WP Article Christian monasticism says Christian monasticism is a religious way of life of Christians who live ascetic and typically cloistered lives that are dedicated to Christian worship. That's close enough.
    • Vulgate and law? Because it was used later to justify many of the changes made in canon law. There's a line in the High Middle Ages section on Law and Papal monarchy: Canon law became a large and highly complex system of laws that omitted Christianity's earlier principles of inclusivity. It is so significant it should be highlighted and underlined. Sociological theory has society becoming more intolerant as the Middle Ages wore on, and power was centralized, and states became more secular, but the church was right there with them. State and church were copying and competing with each other and the tolerance and inclusivity that had been so important to the early church up through the early middle ages got lost somewhere. Augustine said leave the Jews alone in the fourth century. In the thirteenth century the church wrote canon law - law - that restricted Jews to a ghetto, had them wear a yellow patch to identify themselves as Jewish, and forbid them from holding any public office. How did they get from "There is no Greek or Jew..." to that? The Roman law in the Vulgate made them think it was okay. It was too much detail to include in the article, but the mention remained. It's fine to remove it.

References

  1. ^ Burton 1912, pp. 562, 580.
  2. ^ Mathews 1909, p. 341.

Jenhawk777 (talk) 05:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • I was trying to head off controversy with evidence of the majority view on papal monarchy in the note. I feel pretty confident that someone will come along and object to the use of that term, but it is supported, so if you think removal is right, I will accept - while grumbling. :-) Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Christendom

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The "Early Middle Ages" section begins by talking about three different cultures: Germanic Europe, the Byzantine Empire, and Islamic civilisation. We then have a section of Christendom, which claims that the concept was "pervasive and unifying". Do the sources say if it was pervasive and unifying across Christian communities in Germanic Europe, the Byzantine Empire, and Islamic civilisation, or was it only in the former and maybe the second? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:13, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was used in Europe and included the East up to the big divorce. I like your placement of it. I moved it both places, but yours works best I think. Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:20, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tag

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What do you think is missing that should be included? Periodization in this article is broken up according to old standards with Late Antiquity ending in 476, and the early Middle Ages ending in 842 when the iconoclast controversy ended. This is not the same periodization used by the Cambridge history of C., but we can still approximate a total content.

Their Volume 3 begins in 600, and it starts with Christendom. Then it has the emergence of Byzantine Orthodoxy. Then it moves on to stuff that's in the High Middle Ages in this article. The next for them is Christianity and Islam. Then again Part Three is moving into the High Middle Ages for the most part, but it also discusses some "early" in chapter 13 - Asceticism and its institutions. Most of the rest is the next period.

Volume 2 is Constantine to 600, and it has most of what's covered in the Late Antiquity section: chapter 2 - Germanic and Celtic Christianities; 4 - Early Asian and East African Christianities; Jews; pagans; heresy; councils; church law; art and architecture, and a whole section on theology and liturgy and stuff I don't think should be included.

So, what do you think is left out? Jenhawk777 (talk) 05:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming this is directed at me, I'm not sure what this is asking. We are discussing the only tag I've placed above. If not that, then what? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes the only tag, the one that says, "The examples and perspective in this section may not represent a worldwide view of the subject." ???? Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, see #Christendom above. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:34, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most section titles (Late Antiquity, Early Middle Ages, High Middle Ages, Late Middle Ages and Renaissance) represent a Eurocentric approach. I am not sure that we indeed have to split the early Christian period (that lasted till Constantine) into two. Which cited sources verify this split? Borsoka (talk) 04:38, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Borsoka, as we already have articles on the apostolic age and Christianity in the ante-Nicene period, per WP:Summary style, it seems good organisation to split the sections accordingly. I agree with the note about section titles, which goes hand-in-hand with the tag I added. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:04, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit revert

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Discospinster Others placed those links. It isn't right to remove them all without consensus. Jenhawk777 (talk) 23:16, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

36 links is quite excessive indeed. I cannot remember seeing any page with more than 15. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:33, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They needn't have added those links, the See also section is not an indefinite list of vaguely-related articles. ... discospinster talk 04:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey

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@Remese why do you feel the need to revert my edits? HumansRightsIsCool (talk) 17:31, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Read the edit summary I gave, where I explained the reason. Remsense ‥ 论 17:33, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ok so in the edit summary you said "don't use an example of another article to justify this article also being wrong". So you're saying the one about the history of Islam is poorly written? Please remove it then. The one about Islam shouldn't look special and net if you won't let the one about Christianity be. HumansRightsIsCool (talk) 17:37, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This talk page is about improving this article specifically. Mellk (talk) 17:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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