Talk:Islamism

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Islamism in London was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 21 September 2009 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Islamism. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Lede is badly in need of rewriting

This definition:

a religio-political ideology which posits that modern states and regions should be reconstituted in constitutional, economic and judicial terms, in accordance with what is conceived as a revival or a return to authentic Islamic practice in its totality.

has got to go. --Louis P. Boog (talk) 18:44, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why? Slatersteven (talk) 18:51, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unreadable gobbledygook. --Louis P. Boog (talk) 19:45, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Islamism in Shia World section

@Iskandar323 The material was a copy-paste before, until Louis P. Boog recently expanded the Islamist Shi'ism page, a seperate article detailing on the topic. Moreover, Iranian revolution is already mentioned in the History section which makes this WP:REPETITION.

There are many other sub-sections which are either summarised or blanked in this page, and these topics are explained in other articles. Example: "Rise of Islamism by country" section is blanked and it has a seperate page. I dont see the point in expanding an Iran-centric section regarding a topic already detailed in another page; and this page is focused on Islamism worldwide. This article is not discussing regional Islamist movements; there are many other pages for that; but I think this article emphasizes an international perspective.

-- Shadowwarrior8 (talk 6:21, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

@Iskandar323 No response? In that case, I shall proceed to blank the section.

Relevant contents can be inserted into other sections. -- Shadowwarrior8 (talk 8:01, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

How far back was the older version that this was copied from? (I'll take a look myself, but if you know the exact point and can tell me, that would be handy.) I would quite like to check the contents side-by-side to ensure there isn't material being lost. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:40, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I found this version and I can see that the Cold war section and the one below it are very close duplicates. The parts above that seem to have some novel information and sources not present in the original. More generally, is it the best idea to removal all of this material, rather than just reducing and summarizing it? Obviously there are two Islamism trends, one Sunni and one Shia, and this section helps explain the different contexts. I agree that it is undue as largely duplicated material, but I think trimming would beat deletion. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:02, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Iskandar323 Note that I didnt fully blank the section, I left a summary and linked the section to its main article so that readers can go over there.

The Shia trend has already been explained in other general sections. Due to elaborating it in seperate sections, it has led to repetition. For ex: Iranian revolution is repetitively explained in 2 large sub-sections "History" and "Islamism in Shia World" sections which is both WP:REPETITION and WP:UNDUE. "Islamism in Shia World" section is also written in an Iran-centric way. There is little to no detailed elaboration of Islamism in countries like Sudan, Tajikistan, Turkey, Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Algeria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Indonesia, etc and other countries with a history of local Islamist movements.

-- Shadowwarrior8 (talk) UTC 12:14 8 May 2023 Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 12:14, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. I'll trust your judgment. I'm not hugely invested in this, and only objected because at an initial glance I saw plenty of signs that this material was not an unambiguous copy-paste, but given your explanation that what was copied was from a much older version, and seeing that older versions are indeed much closer, I trust that the material has since changed on the other page for good reason, and, trusting the reassurances that you have provided here, I have no real further reason to object. Iskandar323 (talk) 12:54, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Iskandar323 @Shadowwarrior8

Am attempting to improve the Shi'i section (yes, that means making it longer). My hope is to make the Shi'i section about differences between Shii and Sunni "types" of Islamism , where as the Iranian Revolution section would be more about the history. Haven't removed the big ugly tag as I hope to do more. --Louis P. Boog (talk) 19:14, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rashid Rida

The text says: Syrian Sunni cleric Muhammad Rashid Riḍā, a fervent opponent of Westernization, Zionism and nationalism, advocated Sunni internationalism through revolutionary restoration of a pan-Islamic Caliphate to politically unite the Muslim World.

I can’t access the sources quoted at the end of the sentence but do they honestly support this assertion? I am somewhat surprised because Albert Hourani and others (I think Elizabeth Thompson as well) have argued Rida’s conceptualisation of the caliphate was framed in nationalistic terms. Interested if anyone can enlighten? Yr Enw (talk) 09:50, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Formal terminology

Wikipedia prefers common terminology, not formal; certainly not when the terminology changes direct quotes such as those from this article. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 21:59, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On my contributions

Hi everyone. My contributions to the article have been undone by someone who registered on Wikipedia very recently (2 January 2024). However, I would like to state here that I will reinstate my changes, because all my file changes are directly related to the topic of the article. My corrections to the text are also correct. Greetings. Aybeg (talk) 05:51, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There is no reason to replace the pre-existing files with photos of demonstrations rather than photos of well-known Islamists as included before. OrebroVi (talk) 15:24, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Adding tendentious file content to the page and unjustified *removal* of old content is not permitted. You have provided no defense for the changes, especially when it comes to removing agreed-upon pre-existing content. Do not continue reverting without defenses; see Wikipedia:EW. OrebroVi (talk) 15:36, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Source? Slatersteven (talk) 15:36, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

WP:TENDENTIOUS OrebroVi (talk) 15:38, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Me? Slatersteven (talk) 15:40, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No. Was adding on to the earlier context to the issue with @Aybeg's edits. OrebroVi (talk) 16:17, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My changes on files is about the topic. How can you consider the visual acts of Islamism as "tendentious" editing? The protesters, activists, and militants in the photos are Islamists and journalist Tahar Djaout were killed by an Islamist organisation. The reason of adding the portraits of some contemporary politicians around the world is to protect Islamist ideology and its acts. There is no any mistake in my changes. Aybeg (talk) 15:51, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Please read wp:not and wp:or, we go by what wp:rs say, not what we think. Slatersteven (talk) 15:56, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Your proposed additions would be more relevant to List of Islamist terrorist attacks or Islamic extremism. WP:UCR is not welcome. OrebroVi (talk) 16:47, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]